Rosters - Eligibility Question for the Commishes

I was just looking over some rosters and Two Buck Chuck's caught my eye...

Why is he allowed to have the following Minor League Players who have never logged an inning in a Major League Game on his ACTIVE ROSTER?

Wilin Rosario, C, COL
Freddie Freeman, 1B, ATL
Jaff Decker, OF, SD
Andrew Lambo, OF, LAD
Nick Weglarz, OF, CLE
Trevor Reckling, SP, LAA
Danny Duffy, SP, KC
Jeanmar Gomez, SP, CLE

According to our league rules, this shouldn't be allowed... our league rules state:

- The call-up/send down system will be simple. You may only call up a player if he is rosted on an MLB roster at the current time. But once you recall him from your minor league roster you may not send him down until he has been sent down in real life. You also have the ability to send other players on your MLB roster down as long as they have been sent down in real life.

https://ebhdbaseball.forumotion.com/settings-f5/minor-league-system-revised-t29.htm

Are we going to allow this to go on? Essentially, this gives Two Buck Chuck a 30 man MINOR LEAGUE ROSTER.... I realize he's "rebuilding" but why does he not have to play by the same rules that the rest of us do??

i like the rules in Craig Shames other league - where you can callup/send down at will... then nobody would have to do this police work ..and we could use our Milb guys if theyre in the majors without being stuck with potential growing pains or future bench time

If he started the season with them on his roster, did he ever call them up to begin with? Surely most of those players were up during Spring Training, and nobody has noticed so far. The rule doesn't technically state that they have to be on an MLB team at the start of the year in order to put them on your active roster - just that to call them up during the year. While you can argue semantics, that's what happens when you get down to things like rules. (See: Congress.)

Where did we land on this? I for one would love to be able to use major league spots on minor leaguers who have not been called up.

I think the spirit of the rule was surely written to ensure that someone can be on a major league roster only when they have actually played in the major leagues. Just because some of these guys may have been in major league camp during spring training only means that the normal roster rules weren't enforced during the offseason.

One way another league I'm in deals with this is to put weekly AB and IP minimums in place. That way each owner is free to use as many major league spots for minor leaguers as they wish, as long as they meet the weekly minimums to ensure there is some level of competition from that team. There are severe penalties for not meeting the weekly minimums, including losing draft picks if it is happens too many times.

Spring training does not factor into this at all, since that is still the offseason & MLB rosters are not yet official. As the rule states, "You may only call up a player if he is rosted on an MLB roster at the current time." The point of the rule is to prevent hoarding. Seems pretty clear to me.

Interesting. There are counter arguments against this idea such as this is the opposite of having players that are past rookie status still being placed in the minors.

There are IP limits in place, and he didn't meet them the first week I believe so the stats where changed so he'd lose all pitching cats.

I for one don't really mind it, but I'll let Luis decide this one since he wrote that part of the rules.

Its in our rules though that we CAN have players that are past rookie status on our Minor League Roster.... meanwhile what TBC has done is clearly against the rules, yet he has 8 players that shouldn't be allowed on the ACTIVE roster, on his ACTIVE roster.

To me he essentially has a 28 man Minor League Roster, it only seems right that something should be done about this... lets just not play by the rest of our rules if were not going to play by that one. I mean set a damn example, and not just say "Well his team sucks, we'll throw him a bone and look past it". Well you know the reason his team isn't very good, because he's not that active... give me that team and I'd have it competitive by the end of the year... promise.

I'm not trying to throw Stephen under the bus, nice guy... I just think we need to look at the bigger picture and enforce rules. Was it our mistake it wasn't caught before now? Yes, but now that it has been caught, why not do something about it?

Heres my idea, give him a set date.. say 2 weeks from this coming Sunday. By that date he'll have to do whatever it takes; drop, trade, etc. to get those 8 players onto his Minor League Roster... So where his ACTIVE Roster and MINOR LEAGUE Roster meet full league qualifications.

I will wait till Luis makes his post before I put up a retort.

But Bryan, your tone is starting to tick me off...this is the second time you have opened your mouth and inserted foot, I warn you, do not do it a third time.

Knuckleball wrote:

I will wait till Luis makes his post before I put up a retort.

But Bryan, your tone is starting to tick me off...this is the second time you have opened your mouth and inserted foot, I warn you, do not do it a third time.

How did I stick my foot in my mouth? By speaking my mind? Do I agree with the way you run your team, no I don't. But that's besides the point... my whole point in this is that you're not playing by the rules and I think rules should be enforced. Like I said earlier.. you essentially have a 28 man Minor League Roster.

I agree with Bryan.

To that end, why should $2 Chuck be allowed to make trades to figure out how to get rid of players? That really just rewards him for breaking the rules as he can trade 4 guys for 1, essentially resulting in the same overall team value. Let him decide who to cut, sure. If someone has been in the majors at one point, let him keep that person in the major leaguer roster.

If we wait for Luis, we'll be waiting until June or July.

No hard feelings to anyone but the rule is crystal clear. "You may only call up a player if he is rosted on an MLB roster at the current time." I don't see where any gray area could be.

I like both of you guys and I'm not trying to start a big thing, but I HAVE to agree TBC here. Murph I'm all for upholding the rules and while I appreciate what youre doing, there is NO need to go about it in a condescending and narcissitic tone. While you keep it within the COC, I personally am offended by what you indirectly said in the other thread where you basically call out 75% of the league as uninformed dopes. You know more about the minor leagues then me, hey thats great. But there's no need to come off in the manner that you do buddy. Once again, I appreciate your activity and I do agree with you, but lets just use a little bit of tact going forward.

I just like to hear from him because I'd like to know what his intention was when he put the "only" part in the rules.

Personally, I think its fine that TBC can have prospects on his MLB team because there are already penalties for IP limits.

Its also the counter to having MLB player being available in the minors (which we could say could mean having more than the 25 allotted MLB player positions as well). I don't quite get the point of limiting calling up prospects here, but I didn't write that rule, so I'd just like Luis to show up and explain that.

malta69 wrote:

I like both of you guys and I'm not trying to start a big thing, but I HAVE to agree TBC here. Murph I'm all for upholding the rules and while I appreciate what youre doing, there is NO need to go about it in a condescending and narcissitic tone. While you keep it within the COC, I personally am offended by what you indirectly said in the other thread where you basically call out 75% of the league as uninformed dopes. You know more about the minor leagues then me, hey thats great. But there's no need to come off in the manner that you do buddy. Once again, I appreciate your activity and I do agree with you, but lets just use a little bit of tact going forward.

He lives for fantasy

I get both sides of the argument. I don't mind him putting guys from his minor league team on this active roster, but that needs to be done in the off season not during the season, unless they are called up in real life, like the rule states. So I would say if any players were called up or added to his active roster post opening day that are in the minors, those players need to be on the minor league roster. Just my two cents,...

malta69 wrote:

I personally am offended by what you indirectly said in the other thread where you basically call out 75% of the league as uninformed dopes. You know more about the minor leagues then me, hey thats great. But there's no need to come off in the manner that you do buddy. Once again, I appreciate your activity and I do agree with you, but lets just use a little bit of tact going forward.

Sorry what I said offended you, I know it may have came off in a rude manner but that was not my intentions. I just think we should have a Minor League Free Agent System that rewards those who put in some time and work, our current one does not. In our current format, one can essentially snipe players that other owners have worked hard to find. I like the idea of bidding, but not the end result. I think a system that I've talked about or just a free for all system, just like we use with Major Leaguers would work a whole hell of a lot better and reward managers who actually put in work and scour Minor League stats. While it is my personal opinion that only 5-8 of us owners do any real research apart from the Winter MILB Draft, thats just my opinion.. right or wrong.

Well if he called up MiLB players to MLB who were never called up then it is illegal and it should be reversed. How did the players get there?

Either way I dont care, but it is a rule I guess. If someone wants me to enforce it then I will.


So if the players were called up (and werent in real life and someone wants this rule enforced) then make whatever moves to make it a legal roster.

bryanmurphy9 wrote:

malta69 wrote:

I personally am offended by what you indirectly said in the other thread where you basically call out 75% of the league as uninformed dopes. You know more about the minor leagues then me, hey thats great. But there's no need to come off in the manner that you do buddy. Once again, I appreciate your activity and I do agree with you, but lets just use a little bit of tact going forward.

Sorry what I said offended you, I know it may have came off in a rude manner but that was not my intentions. I just think we should have a Minor League Free Agent System that rewards those who put in some time and work, our current one does not. In our current format, one can essentially snipe players that other owners have worked hard to find. I like the idea of bidding, but not the end result. I think a system that I've talked about or just a free for all system, just like we use with Major Leaguers would work a whole hell of a lot better and reward managers who actually put in work and scour Minor League stats. While it is my personal opinion that only 5-8 of us owners do any real research apart from the Winter MILB Draft, thats just my opinion.. right or wrong.

It's cool, all I ask is that we try not to hammer people. We've had a tough time with turnover the past two seasons, so you might not want to alienate new guys a month in. That being said, I agree with your assessment in this instance, just thought it might be beneficial to go about making your point in a less confrontational way.

The Rule in Question:

- The call-up/send down system will be simple. You may only call up a player if he is rostered on an MLB roster at the current time. But once you recall him from your minor league roster you may not send him down until he has been sent down in real life. You also have the ability to send other players on your MLB roster down as long as they have been sent down in real life.

Players on my team currently in question:
M Bumgarner A SP
T Reckling A RP
W Rosario RS C
F Freeman RS 1B
N Weglarz RS 1B
J Francisco RS 3B
A Lambo RS LF
J Decker RS LF
D Duffy RS SP
J Gomez RS SP

This rule does not specify when the players have to be on the major league roster.

Bumgarner, Reckling, Freeman, Weglarz, Francisco, Lambo, Duffy, and Gomez were all part of their major league spring roster. Therefore, they were up in the majors at one point this year and at that same time were on my major league squad.

This leaves two players in question, Rosario who was up as a spring invite however was down in my minors until I moved him up for ZVR this past week and Decker who has been injured.

By my account, if everyone wants to stand by the rule of not having major league call ups that did not occur during a time when the player was up in the majors, these two players would have to be shifted back down.

Knuckleball wrote:

This rule does not specify when the players have to be on the major league roster.

Bumgarner, Reckling, Freeman, Weglarz, Francisco, Lambo, Duffy, and Gomez were all part of their major league spring roster. Therefore, they were up in the majors at one point this year and at that same time were on my major league squad.

Spring training is not an official MLB roster. It would be like saying the fans in the stands are a part of a MLB roster. All I'm saying is don't treat us like fools.

HighLanderZ wrote:

Knuckleball wrote:

This rule does not specify when the players have to be on the major league roster.

Bumgarner, Reckling, Freeman, Weglarz, Francisco, Lambo, Duffy, and Gomez were all part of their major league spring roster. Therefore, they were up in the majors at one point this year and at that same time were on my major league squad.

Spring training is not an official MLB roster. It would be like saying the fans in the stands are a part of a MLB roster. All I'm saying is don't treat us like fools.

Exactly, a rule is a rule.. Luis has spoke his peace and told you what you've done is illegal now your trying to bend the rule into favoring you. It's very easy to understand what you've done. You've made various trades, acquiring minor league guys for major league players without making the appropriate minor league transaction of dropping someone from you're twenty man roster. Also, you drafted 3-4 new minor league players this past off-season without making an appropriate move to cut 3-4 players because your minor league roster was full at the time. Instead, you've just placed all these extra minor league players on your active roster which is against the rules since none of them have never been on a major league roster. Do spring training stats show up on the back of a topps baseball card?! No, because it doesn't freaking count... Were not idiots here knuckleball. Play by the damn rules, it's pretty simple!

Luis or Al, can we have a ruling on When he has to have this fixed by and some consequences if he doesn't? Like losing categories for an illegal roster, losing future draft picks, etc... Cause this guys going to keep dreaming up excuses until he's made to do something...

Can we give him the benefit of the doubt that he did not know this rule? I agree the rule needs to be followed, but we can cut some slack (perhaps I'm being played the fool). To tell you the truth, my biggest concern is if he didn't know the rule and made big minors for major trade, is the trade voidable? I hate doing that, but the fact is if he is going to now have to drop 4 minor leaguers that he would not have dropped otherwise b/c he was trying to stockpile minor leaguers in what he thought was a legal way, would the trade have been made?

I know this goes beyond what we probably want to get into, but instead of attacking, my guess is he did not know the rule. Now, not knowing a law is not an excuse to break it, this is fantasy baseball and we all play in numerous leagues where rules are different.

However, the trade(s) potentially in questions, probably should have been reviewed for this fact WHEN the trades happened. I am not blaming the commisshes. We're all busy, and they do a great job. But, I'm actually wondering if some of this needs to be reviewed in light of the current facts.

jamcam13 wrote:

To tell you the truth, my biggest concern is if he didn't know the rule and made big minors for major trade, is the trade voidable? I hate doing that, but the fact is if he is going to now have to drop 4 minor leaguers that he would not have dropped otherwise b/c he was trying to stockpile minor leaguers in what he thought was a legal way, would the trade have been made?

I see your point jammy, which I think your solution could have been done if it was 1-2 players that he'd made this mistake with. But no, it was 8 players... so that leads me to believe that he knew all along what he was doing. Not that it's something sinister and he should be banned from the league for it... of course not. Some sort of ramification needs to take place though, it's not fair to the rest of us that we all have twenty man minor league rosters yet he gets to play with a twenty-eight man one.

jamcam13 wrote:

However, the trade(s) potentially in questions, probably should have been reviewed for this fact WHEN the trades happened. I am not blaming the commisshes. We're all busy, and they do a great job. But, I'm actually wondering if some of this needs to be reviewed in light of the current facts.

Its not that they were "illegal" trades. He made SIX new draft picks this year, he just never made the appropriate corresponding roster moves after making those selections to drop six players from his minor league roster so that he'd stay below the league max of twenty. Did we as a league not catch this right away, sure. Like I said, I'm not saying we should take picks away and punish him right away. I think we should give him two weeks and give him time to get his minor league roster down to the league max of twenty. There are plenty ways of accomplishing this other than just flat out releasing eight players. He needs to fix it though and make sure his roster complies with all of our league rules. If not, then we'll look into doing something about.. we are giving him a chance right now to fix it and he starts giving us excuses like "But they were on Spring Training rosters". Good one bud... just fix your roster to comply with the rules and it won't be an issue. Pretty much what Luis said, end of story.

2 weeks??? .. reverse the trade and make him legalize his roster ASAP ... this is baloney

I have been informed from the league commissoners that the Spring training defense does not hold water. Therefore, my second defensive argument is all minor leaguers that were obtained via trade do not appear to be subject to the minor league placement rules.

For example, one major leaguer being traded for one minor leaguer or an active major league player in the minors being traded to another team and retaining his minor league status.

I therefore would like the league to exempt these players from being forced into the minors as they were trades predicated on fitting a player under the roster limit, but not necessarily placing them into the minors.

These players would include Lambo, Weglarz, Freeman, Soto, and Beckham.

With the two cuts I have already made my minor league roster size is in compliance, if the league would like to place a hold on further minor league movement until such time I meet full major and minor league complaince, I can accept that given if this error was caught sooner the moves I made over the past year would have been significantly different.